Author Topic: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies  (Read 35362 times)

Tom128

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Re: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2010, 12:25:13 am »
Hi Jules,

You are probably right as I went back into the NAC image search and entered the companion RC photo strip.  It shows the crater and the deformation curves (waves) much more clearly.  My erosion musings are falling apart.  Here is the link below:

http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc/view_lroc/LRO-L-LROC-3-CDR-V1.0/M123424381RC

Not used to seeing these waves and this crater bugs me  :) 

« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 01:16:48 am by Tom128 »

claymore

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Re: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2010, 08:16:13 am »
Wow not sure if this is in the correct area you are looking at but it sure looks the same. It would make a great mosaic as it's 10 photos wide. The photos run two photos then drop down BUT it's still the same flow but this view isn't  wide enough to put them in order. If this is someones field there are more flows both above and below this one.














# ID: AMZ400376n
# Latitude: 16.1468°
# Longitude: 46.5666°

# ID: AMZ4003831
# Latitude: 16.1412°
# Longitude: 46.493°
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 04:43:56 pm by claymore »

Geoff

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Re: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2010, 11:20:12 am »
Hi claymore

This is the Proclus crater area which does have a lot of disturbance around it.

You don't have to post the reference numbers for all the images, just the first and last would probably be O.K.

ElisabethB

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Re: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2010, 07:04:06 pm »

AMZ4002k5h
Latitude: 23.1357°
Longitude: 312.343°

mecurtin

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Re: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2010, 01:14:53 pm »
ID: AMZ4000b8o
# Latitude: -4.79051°
# Longitude: 342.43°

four images, there's more where this came from:




http://www.moonzoo.org/examine/AMZ4000b8o

IreneAnt

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Re: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2010, 09:01:31 pm »
Near the perimeter of the crater below you can see where the lunar regolith on the left half of the rim, light color, shows three sets of curved deformations expanding outward.  The question I have is, were these structures formed during the impact and compressed upward or are we seeing the beginnings of the integrity of the regolith around the crater's rim starting to weaken and settling/breaking away?



Quarter way up on right of photo strip http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc/view_lroc/LRO-L-LROC-3-CDR-V1.0/M123424381LC

An expert will no doubt let us know! To me it looks like "waves" of impact melt, each solidifying to form a terrace.

Hi Guys,
   Sorry to be coming so late to this thread. Looks like I missed a bunch of interesting discussions about a month back when my mom was in the hospital.
   Terraces like these are often formed during the impacting processes, as blocks of the crater rim succumb to gravity and drop downwards. This happens at the end of the crater forming process, during what is called the modification stage. However, this type of process is usually associated with much larger craters, where very large terraces occur. It is interesting that we are now starting to see these smaller terraces on the smaller craters. I still think these smaller terraces are related to the crater-forming process, and not recent slope instability, but that has not yet been convincingly determined, one way or another.
    I don't think these are "waves" of impact  melt, because you would expect the melt to have an outward momentum when it lands on the surface. And, you wouldn't expect the melt to then flow back towards the crater, because there is a fairly steep rise towards the crater rim on the outside of the crater too. So, you wouldn't expect the melt to flow up hill when it's momentum is carrying it away.
    I hope this is helpful and not confusing. Please feel free to ask for clarification if I've made a muddle of the explanation ;)
    Really great picture, by the way Tom128!
   

jules

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Re: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2010, 09:19:32 pm »
Thanks Irene - that helps a lot and makes sense. I got my directions and slopes in a twist. ::) :-[

Tom128

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Re: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2010, 05:24:36 pm »
Hi Irene,

Thank you for the great explanation :)

Tom128

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Re: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2010, 05:40:34 am »
Here is a high resolution Apollo 16 photograph of Isidorus D crater with lots of landslides.  Click here for full crater view.



AS16-4502 (P)  4.19 S,  34.12 E    http://history.nasa.gov/SP-362/ch5.2.htm on page 124.


LROC has captured some incredible views, though the two strips ending in LC and RC cover only a small portion of the crater.  Plan to do a Apollo 16 versus LROC crater match soon to look for change.  Maybe we can request the rest of the crater to be photographed.  The LROC photo request tool is a little too puzzling for me to figure out at this time.  Feel free to jump in and join the fun  8)  Best to download the Apollo 16 pic and view/magnify on your photo viewer.

 If you are very lucky and detect some suspect change (boulders, craters, landslide, etc) please post your finding on the Apollo15 v LROC  thread so we can all have a look.  Notice the LROC photo strip is inverted and also rotated about 90 degrees from the arrow in the Apollo 16 version.


   

http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc/view_lroc/LRO-L-LROC-3-CDR-V1.0/M121986728RC

« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 02:40:25 pm by Tom128 »

jules

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Re: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2010, 08:20:39 pm »

Tom128

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Re: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2010, 03:37:32 am »
Here is a high resolution Apollo 16 photograph of a 2 km crater in Daguerre crater.  Click here for full view.




AS16-4511 (P)   11.53 S, 33.11 E     http://history.nasa.gov/SP-362/ch5.2.htm  Page 118

"This crater probably resulted from the impact of a projectile traveling from south to north along an oblique trajectory (They flipped the photograph and North is in the southern direction, down.) Its pattern of ejecta distribution is similar to that of small craters produced by the impact of missiles along oblique trajectories at the White Sands Missile Range, N. Mex. Some observers postulate that the dark material is a talus deposit of mare material that has fallen into the crater.-H.J.M."

The NAC photo strip is inverted http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc/view_lroc/LRO-L-LROC-2-EDR-V1.0/M121993376RE





The LROC WMS Image Map shows the photo strips (2) very close to the rim of Daguerre crater.  That may be a possible reason for the landslide as the meteor may have impacted into the rim.

 


Of course I believe there are some differences between the LROC version and the Apollo 16 version aside from one being inverted.  May need Astrostu to verify I have the right crater  :) but I think I do.  I'll put something together later.

If you detect some suspect change in the boulders, craters, landslide, etc, please post your finding on the Apollo15 v LROC  thread so we can all have a look.  It's best to download the Apollo 16 version onto your computer to magnify with a photo viewer.






« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 04:10:58 am by Tom128 »

Geoff

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Re: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies
« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2010, 09:27:41 am »
I've been exploring Kepler crater and found this landslip/landslide:


Approximate coordinates: Latitude = 8.00 Longitude = 321.6

Strip: M114206456LE

This is the other half of the landslip:



Strip: M114206456RE
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 12:34:26 pm by Geoff »

Geoff

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Re: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2010, 04:47:33 pm »
A nice example of debris flow from Kepler crater:



Strip: M114206456RE

sergsh

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Re: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies
« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2010, 03:39:59 am »
About the many photos of the landslide.

The most important thing to understand - it's dry sloughing, or in this landslide involved the water?

I looked at all the pictures here, and he found many images landslide in the other photo LROK. I think it's a landslide, with the participation of water. And it lies at a depth of 30-50 m from the surface as ice. When creating a crater exposed layer of ice. And when it is heated water melts and forms a landslide.
Very often, a landslide on one side of the crater, which heats the sun.

Landslides on the walls of the crater on the moon are very similar to landslides icy shores of the northern seas of the earth. There in the summer thaw permafrost and a mixture of water and sand flowing down.

Tom128

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Re: TLP Project - The Landslides of Birt / Gullies
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2010, 04:17:38 am »
Hi Sergsh,

That is a very fascinating point of view!  Interesting to consider that the the crater wall would have ice down from the rim, like permafrost, exposed to the lunar sun and then degrading the wall itself causing or contributing to a landslide.  So, if we could dig a large trench deep (in the right area) into the lunar surface 30-50 m we might find ice crystals.  A large meteor having done the work for us and the ice, where it is layered in the wall, may be another erosion factor to consider.